Rutan is another politician.

[Michael Walsh]

Not Burt, but his brother Dick.

He was just elected to Mojave East Kern Airport District Board.

Being elected to a government body makes him a politician.
Of course, if he had lost then you might be able to say that
he was "no politician" but when you win you definitely
rate the term.

OK, this is of not much importance, but it provides fuel
for a possibly inflamatory subject line.

Mike Walsh

[Alan Anderson]

Post by Michael Walsh
Not Burt, but his brother Dick.
He was just elected to Mojave East Kern Airport District Board.

Trolling, Mike? How disappointing. How about a nice game of chess, instead?

[Michael Walsh]

Post by Alan Anderson

Post by Michael Walsh
Not Burt, but his brother Dick.
He was just elected to Mojave East Kern Airport District Board.

Trolling, Mike? How disappointing. How about a nice game of chess, instead?

Yes, indeed. I do admit to trolling.

However, my post was truthful and could even be considered applicable
to this particular news group.

Since Burt Rutan is operating out of Mojave perhaps having his brother
on this board is some kind of help for him.

Way out of practice on chess.

Mike Walsh

[Rand Simberg]

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 23:18:11 GMT, in a place far, far away, Michael

Post by Michael Walsh
Since Burt Rutan is operating out of Mojave perhaps having his brother
on this board is some kind of help for him.

Not necessarily, since they're actually in competition. Dick works
for XCOR...

[Michael Walsh]

Post by Rand Simberg
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 23:18:11 GMT, in a place far, far away, Michael

Post by Michael Walsh
Since Burt Rutan is operating out of Mojave perhaps having his brother
on this board is some kind of help for him.

Not necessarily, since they're actually in competition. Dick works
for XCOR...

Yes, but both organizations should have parallel interests. I was not
trying to imply that there would be anything improper going on.

Mike Walsh

[Jeff Foust]

Post by Michael Walsh
Not Burt, but his brother Dick.
He was just elected to Mojave East Kern Airport District Board.
Being elected to a government body makes him a politician.

If memory serves, Dick Rutan ran for Congress in the Inland Empire
region of southern California (San Bernardino, Rancho Cucamonga, etc.)
in 1992. He won the Republican nomination but lost in the general
election to the incumbent, George Brown (chair of the House Science
Committee at the time.) This may not alter one's perception of when
Rutan became a "politician" (if you adopt Mr. Walsh's definition), but
does suggest an interest in politics that predates 2003.

Jeff Foust
***@alum.mit.edu

[Andrew Gray]

Post by Jeff Foust
If memory serves, Dick Rutan ran for Congress in the Inland Empire
region of southern California (San Bernardino, Rancho Cucamonga, etc.)
in 1992. He won the Republican nomination but lost in the general
election to the incumbent, George Brown (chair of the House Science
Committee at the time.) This may not alter one's perception of when
Rutan became a "politician" (if you adopt Mr. Walsh's definition), but
does suggest an interest in politics that predates 2003.

From politicalgraveyard.com:

(California) 42nd District: 1992 Nov 3:
George Brown, Jr. (Dem), elected;
Dick Rutan (Rep), defeated;
Fritz R. Ward (Libertarian), defeated.

(bit dull, that... so...)

From ourcampaigns.com:

http://www.ourcampaigns.com/cgi-bin/r.cgi/RaceDetail.html?&RaceID=27876

Only lost by a 7% margin, which isn't shabby by any standards.

(Brown was actually the incumbened in a different district, the 36th -
had there been redistricting?)

[Michael Walsh]

Post by Jeff Foust

Post by Michael Walsh
Not Burt, but his brother Dick.
He was just elected to Mojave East Kern Airport District Board.
Being elected to a government body makes him a politician.

If memory serves, Dick Rutan ran for Congress in the Inland Empire
region of southern California (San Bernardino, Rancho Cucamonga, etc.)
in 1992. He won the Republican nomination but lost in the general
election to the incumbent, George Brown (chair of the House Science
Committee at the time.) This may not alter one's perception of when
Rutan became a "politician" (if you adopt Mr. Walsh's definition), but
does suggest an interest in politics that predates 2003.
Jeff Foust

I will clarify that I do not believe the term politician is a bad word.
If you elect people without political skills and can be truthfully labeled

as non-politicians there is another term for them, failures.

In the more classical case some-one runs claiming " I am not a politician,

I am a true man-of-the-people who will clean up the messes left by
other politicians" and wins.

These people are really examples of highly skilled politicians.

Mike Walsh

[Aleta Jackson]

Post by Michael Walsh
Not Burt, but his brother Dick.
He was just elected to Mojave East Kern Airport District Board.
Being elected to a government body makes him a politician.

I'm not certain what you are trying to imply here but you should be
aware of a few facts about Mojave, the Mojave Airport, and Dick Rutan.

First, Dick, an officer and a gentleman, lives here. Mojave is his
home.
Second, he owns airplanes and a hangar on the Mojave Airport.
Third, Dick is XCOR Aerospace's chief test pilot.
Fourth, Dick is a licensed pilot instructor. He works on the Mojave
Airport.
Fifth, Mojave is a small town of about 3,500 people. We are a closely
knit community and many of us take it in turns being on various boards
and committees. That does not make us politicians: it means we are
good citizens.
Sixth, Dick is a civic-minded individual who is concerned about
Mojave's future.
Seventh, a by-pass for Highway 58 has just opened to the east of
Mojave, thereby decreasing traffic (about 10,000 semi-trailer trucks a
day used to come through Mojave). This has reduced income to many of
the businesses that cater to the traffic than runs thru Mojave (one
business has already closed).
Eighth, the Mojave Airport is a big economic driver in this area.
Mojave Airport used to be a Marine base, and is one of the success
stories of transfer of a military base to civilian use. However, money
made available to other recently closed bases has lured a couple of
large tenants away from Mojave, and we have lost over $3 million in
annual income.
Ninth, the Mojave Airport has applied to become a space port.
Lastly, Stu Witt, the airport manager, requested the people who live
and work here to get more involved with the airport, so that Mojave
doesn't need to depend so much on tourists stopping for lunch or
dinner, or truckers staying overnight. Dick's response to Stu's
request was to run for the board. Others of us are helping in other
ways.

Dick understands the needs of our community and the airport. He
recognizes that his experiences, his fame, and his knowledge can help
the community recover from the econimic body-blows we have suffered
from the by-pass and loss of airport tenants. He wants to see the
Mojave Spaceport become a reality.

Far from being some power-seeking politician, he is doing what he can
to help his friends and neighbors.

Any other questions about Mr. Dick Rutan should be directed to his web
site: www.dickrutan.com

Aleta Jackson
XCOR Aerospace

[Michael Walsh]

Post by Aleta Jackson

Post by Michael Walsh
Not Burt, but his brother Dick.
He was just elected to Mojave East Kern Airport District Board.
Being elected to a government body makes him a politician.

I'm not certain what you are trying to imply here but you should be
aware of a few facts about Mojave, the Mojave Airport, and Dick Rutan.

I assure you, that I meant no disrespect to Dick Rutan.

Post by Aleta Jackson
First, Dick, an officer and a gentleman, lives here. Mojave is his
home.
Second, he owns airplanes and a hangar on the Mojave Airport.
Third, Dick is XCOR Aerospace's chief test pilot.
Fourth, Dick is a licensed pilot instructor. He works on the Mojave
Airport.
Fifth, Mojave is a small town of about 3,500 people. We are a closely
knit community and many of us take it in turns being on various boards
and committees. That does not make us politicians: it means we are
good citizens.

Sorry, but it does make you politicians. Local offices are political
bodies down at the level where direct contact is made between the
public and the local officials.

These people don't meet the requirements to be labeled
"professional politicians" that I would assume applies to someone who
makes politics his profession.

Post by Aleta Jackson
Sixth, Dick is a civic-minded individual who is concerned about
Mojave's future.
Seventh, a by-pass for Highway 58 has just opened to the east of
Mojave, thereby decreasing traffic (about 10,000 semi-trailer trucks a
day used to come through Mojave). This has reduced income to many of
the businesses that cater to the traffic than runs thru Mojave (one
business has already closed).
Eighth, the Mojave Airport is a big economic driver in this area.
Mojave Airport used to be a Marine base, and is one of the success
stories of transfer of a military base to civilian use. However, money
made available to other recently closed bases has lured a couple of
large tenants away from Mojave, and we have lost over $3 million in
annual income.
Ninth, the Mojave Airport has applied to become a space port.
Lastly, Stu Witt, the airport manager, requested the people who live
and work here to get more involved with the airport, so that Mojave
doesn't need to depend so much on tourists stopping for lunch or
dinner, or truckers staying overnight. Dick's response to Stu's
request was to run for the board. Others of us are helping in other
ways.
Dick understands the needs of our community and the airport. He
recognizes that his experiences, his fame, and his knowledge can help
the community recover from the econimic body-blows we have suffered
from the by-pass and loss of airport tenants. He wants to see the
Mojave Spaceport become a reality.
Far from being some power-seeking politician, he is doing what he can
to help his friends and neighbors.

And if he is going to be effective in doing this he will have to be a
good politician. Every thing you say shows that he will be involved
in the political interface between local, regional, and national political
bodies.

Post by Aleta Jackson
Any other questions about Mr. Dick Rutan should be directed to his web
site: www.dickrutan.com
Aleta Jackson
XCOR Aerospace

I use this as an example of a perfectly good word, politics, and a name
applied to people practicing politics, politicians.

This is quite similar to the term "hacker" that started out as a term
applied to people skilled in using computers. These were people
who worked at the lower level and "hacked" code as opposed to
those who took more of a computer science and software engineering
approach to producing software.

Of course, now the honorable term "hacker" is used by the media
as a description of someone who breaks into other people's
computer systems illegally.

We would all be better off if more civic minded people took an
interest in how politics affected them, and in turn, became effective
politicians.

Mike Walsh

[r***@yahoo.com]

Post by Michael Walsh
Not Burt, but his brother Dick.
Being elected to a government body makes him a politician.

Nonsense. Being elected doesn't make someone a politician any more
than posting to sci.space.policy makes someone a journalist.

Post by Michael Walsh
OK, this is of not much importance, but it provides fuel
for a possibly inflamatory subject line.

And this makes it worth posting, why?

-R

[George William Herbert]

Post by r***@yahoo.com

Post by Michael Walsh
OK, this is of not much importance, but it provides fuel
for a possibly inflamatory subject line.

And this makes it worth posting, why?

I hereby nominate Randall for the nebulous distinction
of being the s.s.policy poster whose online behaviour
closest matches his in person demeanor.

Don't ever change, Randall... 8-)


-george william herbert
***@retro.com

[Michael Walsh]

Post by George William Herbert

Post by r***@yahoo.com

Post by Michael Walsh
OK, this is of not much importance, but it provides fuel
for a possibly inflamatory subject line.

And this makes it worth posting, why?

I hereby nominate Randall for the nebulous distinction
of being the s.s.policy poster whose online behaviour
closest matches his in person demeanor.
Don't ever change, Randall... 8-)
-george william herbert

Somewhere along the line I am hoping to terminate this thread
without getting into any prolonged "flame" exchange. I admit
to doing something of a "troll" figuring that someone would read
the subject line and think I was calling Burt Rutan a poltician in
his attempts to get the appropriate government approval for
his flights or perhaps some other part of his activities.

Then I printed the information that I read in my newspaper
that Dick Rutan had won an office on a Mojave airport board
and I thought it would be a shift when the reader found out
that basically Dick Rutan was a civic minded person willing
to run for a local public office.

I am also presenting the apparently somewhat controversial
view that politics is not a bad word and the term politician
is not derogative, but does describe people who run for,
win elective office, and serve in the position. Of course, it
can also refer to people who work behind the scenes without
holding office.

It should be an honorable thing to do, but because the bad
character of some politicians has besmirched the term some
people seem to believe it is a bad word.

Mike Walsh

[r***@yahoo.com]

Post by Michael Walsh

Post by r***@yahoo.com
And this makes it worth posting, why?

I admit
to doing something of a "troll" figuring that someone would read
the subject line and think I was calling Burt Rutan a poltician

Ah. You thought you had a *clever* troll, and you thought its being
clever made it worth posting.

It's a free country.

-R

[r***@yahoo.com]

Post by George William Herbert
I hereby nominate Randall for the nebulous distinction
of being the s.s.policy poster whose online behaviour
closest matches his in person demeanor.

Thanks, I think.

...It's easiest that way. I talk to the monitor, and type what comes
out of my mouth. It frequently has to be cleaned up a bit.

The cleanup provides a marvelous flame detector. If after cleanup
there is no semantic value remaining, I send the reply by private mail
or not at all.

-R

[Allen Meece]

<<Nonsense. Being elected doesn't make someone a politician any more
than posting to sci.space.policy makes someone a journalist.>>
Well, with nasa and the guvmnt effectively blockading space access with
severely restrictive launch rules, a space man almost has to be a good
politician to even stand a chance of getting off the ground!
^
//^\\
~~~ near space elevator ~~~~
~~~members.aol.com/beanstalkr/~~~

[r***@yahoo.com]

Post by Allen Meece
Well, with nasa and the guvmnt effectively blockading space access with
severely restrictive launch rules, a space man almost has to be a good
politician to even stand a chance of getting off the ground!

NASA is never going to send you into space. You know this already.
The big commercial space launch companies have no affordable manned
capability. You know this also.

So your best bet for getting off the ground is to do it yourself.
Start building hardware and start talking to AST about a launch
license. Rod and Randa Milliron (InterOrbital) got a launch license
back in 2000. That's right: two people got a launch license. XCOR
just had their launch license application deemed "sufficently
complete." <http://www.xcor.com/launch-license.html> The bulk of that
application was written by two people.

So start bending metal and start talking to Washington. I'll help you
talk to Washington (I won't help you with the hardware). You'll need
to work hard at both. How will you know if you're working hard
enough? Simple. If you have the time and energy to post to
sci.space.policy about how hard it is, you're not working at it hard
enough.

-R

[johnhare]

Post by r***@yahoo.com
So start bending metal and start talking to Washington. I'll help you
talk to Washington (I won't help you with the hardware). You'll need
to work hard at both. How will you know if you're working hard
enough? Simple. If you have the time and energy to post to
sci.space.policy about how hard it is, you're not working at it hard
enough.
-R

Ouch. That was painful.

[r***@yahoo.com]

Post by johnhare

Post by r***@yahoo.com
So start bending metal and start talking to Washington. I'll help you
talk to Washington (I won't help you with the hardware). You'll need
to work hard at both. How will you know if you're working hard
enough? Simple. If you have the time and energy to post to
sci.space.policy about how hard it is, you're not working at it hard
enough.

Ouch. That was painful.

I actually edited out, as too harsh, what I first wrote, which was,
"Get to work." John, you've been working in this business for years,
at no small personal cost. My comment wasn't directed at you.

I was addressing those people here of whom Teddy Roosevelt wrote, "It
is not the critic who counts, or the man who points out where the
strong man stumbled, or the doer of deeds could have done better."
You know the rest of the quote. You're not one of the critics.
You're one of the men in the arena; whose face is marred by dust, and
sweat, and blood...

Keep the faith, my friend. We'll get there.

-R

[Michael Walsh]

Post by r***@yahoo.com

Post by Michael Walsh
Not Burt, but his brother Dick.
Being elected to a government body makes him a politician.

Nonsense. Being elected doesn't make someone a politician any more
than posting to sci.space.policy makes someone a journalist.

Running for public office may not make someone a politician, but
winning and serving does indicate political skills and that person
can rightfully be called a politician.

Posting to sci.space.policy doesn't make me a journalist, but
I do put out a newsletter for an organization. I don't know if
that makes me a journalist, but Rand Simberg certainly is one.
Pretty good at presenting his views.

Post by r***@yahoo.com

Post by Michael Walsh
OK, this is of not much importance, but it provides fuel
for a possibly inflamatory subject line.

And this makes it worth posting, why?

Basically because I felt like it and it wasn't any further out of line
than most of the other stuff posted in this newsgroup.

Mike Walsh

[Rand Simberg]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 01:29:12 GMT, in a place far, far away, Michael

Post by Michael Walsh
Posting to sci.space.policy doesn't make me a journalist, but
I do put out a newsletter for an organization. I don't know if
that makes me a journalist, but Rand Simberg certainly is one.
Pretty good at presenting his views.

Well, I don't actually consider myself a journalist, though I do try
to present my views well. I'm really more of a commentator.

[Michael Walsh]

Post by Rand Simberg
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 01:29:12 GMT, in a place far, far away, Michael

Post by Michael Walsh
Posting to sci.space.policy doesn't make me a journalist, but
I do put out a newsletter for an organization. I don't know if
that makes me a journalist, but Rand Simberg certainly is one.
Pretty good at presenting his views.

Well, I don't actually consider myself a journalist, though I do try
to present my views well. I'm really more of a commentator.

And that is different from a journalist?


Mike Walsh

[Rand Simberg]

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 03:07:13 GMT, in a place far, far away, Michael

Post by Michael Walsh

Post by Rand Simberg
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003 01:29:12 GMT, in a place far, far away, Michael

Post by Michael Walsh
Posting to sci.space.policy doesn't make me a journalist, but
I do put out a newsletter for an organization. I don't know if
that makes me a journalist, but Rand Simberg certainly is one.
Pretty good at presenting his views.

Well, I don't actually consider myself a journalist, though I do try
to present my views well. I'm really more of a commentator.

And that is different from a journalist?

Most people consider journalists to be reporters. I don't claim to be
one.